tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37106751.post154099785517172275..comments2023-06-28T11:56:24.073-04:00Comments on The Lamb's War: Routine and RemembranceMicah Baleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06849915973708989620noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37106751.post-72953701691420930862011-04-26T15:17:56.528-04:002011-04-26T15:17:56.528-04:00I think the last sentence says it all. "Come ...I think the last sentence says it all. "Come Lord Jesus!" It is this that Friends came to celebrate every First Day, and in remembrance every day. I think the issue is not a liturgical calendar or any particular sequence of days, but the recognition and realization that Christ has come to teach his people every day in all that we do. I believe the reason the early Friends were able to endure the persecution and to grow was the experience the reality that Christ is Present and that we do not need to look forward to a second coming. I believe that it was not so much that Friends felt that the second coming was going to be soon but that it had already happened and that we are living in the Kingdom, spiritual and not physical, and that a "new physical Kingdom had no meaning apart from the current kingdom that comes as God's will IS done.Tom Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12194918323559385371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37106751.post-17638022955579757042011-04-26T11:19:43.290-04:002011-04-26T11:19:43.290-04:00@janegirlcqs To be fair, a lot of the modern-day l...@janegirlcqs To be fair, a lot of the modern-day liturgical calendar has very little scriptural basis. Think about saints' days, for example. Or Lent. Christ's birth, death, and resurrection all took place and are documented in the Scriptures, but neither Jesus nor the authors of Scripture commanded us to celebrate Christmas or Easter. My friend Tyler is fond of pointing out that the only holiday that Christians celebrate today that is specifically mentioned in Scripture is Pentecost, which was a longstanding Jewish holiday.<br /><br />I do agree with your basic point, though, that the calendar of the liturgical Church is powerful in that it draws us explicitly into the story of Jesus' birth, ministry, death and resurrection. I appreciate it for that.<br /><br />@Bill I agree.<br /><br />@Ganeida Do you mean that you're feeling called to celebrate the Sabbath, Passover, Yom Kippur, the Festival of Booths, etc.? That's interesting, and I'd love to hear how that is going for you.<br /><br />I personally do not believe that God particularly cares one way or another what festivals we do or do not celebrate. I believe that holidays, rituals and religious customs exist to help us better relate to God - but I do believe that Sabbath was made for man (and woman) not we for the Sabbath!Micah Baleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849915973708989620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37106751.post-6185629279232093212011-04-24T18:07:10.762-04:002011-04-24T18:07:10.762-04:00The Spirit has been showing me that the church rit...The Spirit has been showing me that the church rituals are not the festivals established by God & we are being called back to the biblical festivals as oppossed to any church ordained ones. It is making Christmas & Easter interesting to say the least as we are out of step with both the world & the church!Ganeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17176246964466185315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37106751.post-38144642348182893692011-04-23T09:47:21.466-04:002011-04-23T09:47:21.466-04:00God made humans as creatures who seek orderly patt...God made humans as creatures who seek orderly patterns. The liturgical calendar is a natural expression of who God made us to be.<br /><br />These patterns are set up for reasons, often very good ones as in this case. But humans are prone to acting as if it is the particular patterns that have value, not the reason for which the patterns were set.<br /><br />It was painfully obvious to the early Friends that the church was using the sacramental and liturgical patterns in ways that did not honor God, and in fact dishonored God. They reacted by claiming, in many cases (actually you can note some differences in early Friends' responses if you read the various early Friends), that the patterns themselves were the problem. So they wholesale rejected the church patterns, and even occasionally went to the extreme of saying that those who practiced the external patterns were thereby proving they did not have the internal experience.<br /><br />Friends were right to reject abusive patterns with use of the sacraments and rituals. But they were wrong when they at least implied that the problem was with those practices themselves. Instead, it always comes down to the spirit in which they are practiced.<br /><br />Fox felt led to establish certain patterns for Friends. Because they weren't set as sacraments or rituals, the early Friends did not seem to make the connection to the patterns the wider church had established. But they really do come from somewhat the same place.<br /><br />As Micah has observed, patterns still observed by OYM, especially including the use of the queries, do serve as something of a liturgical calendar. Like the liturgical calendar, they can - rightly used - lead us to reflect on God's care for us and what it means to be faithful.<br /><br />I unite with Micah's concern for unity with the wider church, and janegirlcqs' observation of the value of the calendar reflecting the rhythyms of the life and death of Jesus. I do find considerable value in right observance of the key events in the story of Jesus.<br /><br />Shouldn't we make a distinction between the early Friends' rejection of church hypocrisy and the misuse of rituals, sacraments and the calendar; and a rejection of traditional Christian practices per se? Aren't we in a very different environment in the wider Christian community than the corrupt state church environment in which early Friends found themselves, and shouldn't we respond appropriately to our environment rather than that one?Bill Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752443575410023776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37106751.post-73701065000094390272011-04-22T12:06:57.243-04:002011-04-22T12:06:57.243-04:00The reason that the original liturgical calendar i...The reason that the original liturgical calendar is so powerful is that it's based in the rhythms of the life and death of Jesus. I worry about substituting human events for the Bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com